SHOULD THIS GIRL HAVE HAD AN ABORTION?

The following is a horror story:

A Brazilian girl who is now nine has been sexually assaulted since she was six years old by her stepfather.

After the girl, complaining of stomach pains, was taken to the hospital, the doctors discovered that she was four months pregnant with twins.  The doctors decided on an abortion.  Abortion is only permitted in Brazil in case of rape and where the life of the mother is at risk and doctors said the girl’s case met both these conditions.  The doctors said the girl was so small that her uterus did not have the ability to contain one child let alone two.

The Catholic Church tried to intervene to prevent the abortion going through but the procedure was successfully carried out last Wednesday.

Now a Catholic Brazilian archbishop says all those who helped this nine-year-old child rape victim secure an abortion are to be excommunicated from the Catholic Church. These include all the doctors, the nurses and the child’s mother.  It will not apply to the girl herself  because she is so young.

Archbishop Jose Sobrinho says that the law of God is above any human law.

Is the Church’s position in this case christian or barbaric?

Should this child have been helped to have an abortion?

24 Comments »

  1. 1
    joe agnost Says:

    The RCC also talked about this girl being “allegedly” raped (like a 9 year old can consent!), and discussed bringing murder charges against those involved in the abortion.

    Not only did they disregard the fact this little girl had been raped (repeatedly), but they don’t seem to care that her life was in danger!

    “It will not apply to the girl herself because she is so young.”

    Unbelievable! She’s too young to excommunicate – but not too young to carry 2 fetuses to term! The “logic” of the RCC on full display here!

    As you might imagine – I find this story disgusting. The RCC showing it’s full range of misogyny and barbarism…. I almost wish I were catholic so that I could LOUDLY denounce and quit their org.

    What do the catholics here think about this?

  2. 2
    Peter LeBlanc Says:

    “It should not apply to the girl herself because she is so young”. The Archbishop should include himself in the excommunication, for excluding the girl. Catholic teaching is that the age of reason is 7 years old and she should be responsible for her actions.

    He is inconsistent in his logic.

  3. 3

    I have a fairly radical point of view here. It seems to me that the law of the Church goes against the humanity of the girl in question.

    Any church of the God I know would express greater compassion and understanding than seems the case here.

  4. 4
    joe agnost Says:

    @Peter: Are you saying you see nothing wrong with the actions of the RCC in this (other than “inconsistency”)??

  5. 5
    Chimera Says:

    That’s an interesting observation, Peter. Can’t wait to see what the blue babe will have to say about it. From what I’ve seen elsewhere,m she’ll probably start screaming for the girl to be excommunicated, as well.

    “Archbishop Jose Sobrinho says that the law of God is above any human law.”

    Well, then, why don’t a bunch of thinking and feeling and compassionate Brazilian citizens take God’s Law under advisement and follow their god-given instincts to whip this idiot through the streets with lengths of razor wire? They’d be doing God’s Will, following God’s Law. He oughta feel right grateful for that…the bastard.

    Jesus said, “Suffer the little children to come unto me.” He didn’t say, “Come on, let’s make all the little children suffer!”

    “Is the Church’s position in this case christian or barbaric?”

    Neither, Neil. Even barbarians had a better sense of humanity and compassion than this. This is straight out of a gothic horror novel. And you know the best part? As long as the rapist says he’s sorry for what he did, the church will forgive him for his “transgressions.” Ain’t that rich?

  6. 6
    Cornelius T.Zen Says:

    Good morrow, all!
    Consider Brazil. In that country, any man can abuse any woman, up to and including killing her, with little or no repercussion, because the laws and the customs have relegated women to a level below that of family pets. All the man would have to offer in defense was, “She provoked me.” I have read a number of stories where women have been killed, on impulse, or by malice aforethought, and the killer gets off, simply because the judge agreed that, yes, the man had been provoked, or aggravated, or just plain pissed off.
    Consider Brazil, and do not be surprised. That monstrous rapist will never be punished in Brazil, as long as he lives. The Catholic Church, in league with the judicial system and the government, will never even consider such a thought. They make the devil redundant. CTZen

  7. 7
    Paul Geraghty Says:

    I do not understand Peter’s comment. I hope that it is tongue in cheek. This is a tragic situation. I am personally “against” abortion but at the same time understand that life is seldom black and white. This situation, brought about by incestuous abuse, seems to me one of those in which abortion is the lesser of two evils. Excommunication is a ridiculous penalty usually invoked by self-important prelates.

  8. 8
    Peter LeBlanc Says:

    Paul, “I hope that it is tongue in cheek.” maybe yes, on the other hand this Archbishop represents the thinking of the Vatican, otherwise he wouldn’t have been appointed.

    I am convinced that conceptual knowledge for some people can sound good in a vacuum. When it is applied to human experience it falls flat.

    The Archbishops teaching is flawed, therefore the Pope should excommunicate him on his own statement, he showed weakness. I say that because I have never heard a compassionate statement from the Church on abortion. I could be wrong.

  9. 9
    Peter LeBlanc Says:

    Chimera, Jesus, said “suffer the little children to come unto me.”, Happy to hear you quote from a Christian Bible. I am sure you felt something there. You big feeeler.

    Then you go on and screw up, you and the Archbishop have the same sense of justice. Vendetta.

    As far as sorrow goes someday you and I will seek the same forgiveness and will be happy to receive it.

  10. 10
    Tony Kondaks Says:

    Wow.

    I’m embarrassed for the Catholic Church.

  11. 11
    Heidi Gulatee Says:

    I cannot believe how a small child can be punished for being abused. I cannot even say what I would like to do to the stepfather. There simply are no words for it.
    The Archbishop would not mind if this girl would die carrying twins to term. I think he should be taken off his post. What kind of compassion and understanding of humans does he have?
    I know that we are not supposed to take the law into our hands but in this case I get so angry I could make an exception. And I usually try to look at both sides. But here for me there is only the young girl that needs protection.

  12. 12
    Chimera Says:

    “The Archbishops teaching is flawed, therefore the Pope should excommunicate him on his own statement…”

    I really hate to bear bad tidings, but the Vatican is backing up this piece of ecclesiastical excrement in his excommunication of the girl’s mother and doctors.

    “Happy to hear you quote from a Christian Bible.”

    Aw, don’t go getting too excited, Peter; I quote from a lot of religions. Whatever it takes to turn their actions and words back on them and catch them out. Damn, but they hate it when I do that!

  13. 13
    SUZANNE Says:

    Peter Leblanc

    The age of reason is age 7, but the Church recognizes immaturity in youngsters. You can’t get married at age 12 for a reason.

  14. 14
    SUZANNE Says:

    Anne Naylor:

    What about God’s compassion for the unborn children? Does your God not recognize them as equal human beings, just as valuable as anyone else?

    It is precisely because God recognizes that that lives of all involved are valuable that no direction killing of the unborn twins should have taken place.

    If the pregnancy had to have been terminated to save the life of the mother, the unborn twin should have been delivered in tact and non-euthanized, and allowed to die, rather than have been chopped up in a D and E operation.

    The media have not bothered to point that out because they are clueless about religion and don’t bother to investigate when it corresponds to their prejudice and political agenda.

  15. 15
    SUZANNE Says:

    The media have not bothered to point that

    I.e. the position of the Catholic Church on such situations.

  16. 16
    SUZANNE Says:

    Even barbarians had a better sense of humanity and compassion than this. This is straight out of a gothic horror novel.

    It is barbarian to chop up unborn babies.

    Does anyone think about what happens during an abortion?

  17. 17
    SUZANNE Says:

    I think he should be taken off his post. What kind of compassion and understanding of humans does he have?

    Compassion and understanding for ALL human beings, including the unborn.

    But here for me there is only the young girl that needs protection.

    What about the unborn children?

    It seems that people’s compassion is limited here. We should be compassionate towards ALL. The Church is being pilloried for caring about all the human lives.

  18. 18
    jim Says:

    “All those who defended slavert were free, All those who defended abortion are born.”

  19. 19
    jim Says:

    “All those who defended slavery were free, All those who defended abortion are born.”

  20. 20
    Peter LeBlanc Says:

    Suzanne, “The age of reason, is 7, but the Church recognizes immaturity in youngsters. You can’t get married at age 12 for a reason.

    Suzanne, we are not talking about marriage, we are talking about mortal sin. The Archbishop should have excommunicated the girl for having an abortion.

    He failed to do so feigning his intentions of excommunicating everyone else.

    Like everyone else I think his actions were intolerable as representing a loving Roman Catholic Church.

    There are ways to give counsel against abortion which I am against, and I think our friend Joe is personally against as well.

    The Archbishop failed the test of a Pastoral teaching and therefore, by his own lack of consistent intellect he failed to condemn the young girl in keeping with his narrow minded thinking.

    I think the Brazilian government was wise in its determination to abort a fetus, on the grounds it proposed.

    I am happy that the girl survived this terrible ordeal and hope the Archbishop under the direction of our Pope reverses his decision.

  21. 21
    Joe Agnost Says:

    Suzanne: “Does your God not recognize them as equal human beings, just as valuable as anyone else?”

    This specific case underscores just how vile this idea of “equality” is ragarding fetuses. This case should remind everybody that a fetus is NOT “as valuable as anyone else” – the 9 year old mother in this case is an excellent example of a human being MORE valuable than the fetuses she is carrying.

    Suzanne’s kind of thinking leads to such vile comments as the following by The regional archbishop, Jose Cardoso Sobrinho:

    “Although the man (the step father) allegedly committed a heinous crime … the abortion – the elimination of an innocent life – was more serious”.

    There’s the “logic” of the RCC folks! Rape? Incent – yes, this is bad… but abortion is more “serious”!!

    It’s sick, barbaric, and makes Sharia law look cute and cuddly by comparison.

    Suzanne: “The age of reason is age 7, but the Church recognizes immaturity in youngsters.”

    Sure they do Suz… that’s why they tried to force a NINE year old girl to carry twins to term. The RCC is ass backwards and needs to be ridiculed into irrelevance.

    Suzanne: “Does anyone think about what happens during an abortion?”

    Not really… I think that’s just SICK people like you who dwell on that…

    Suzanne: “Compassion and understanding for ALL human beings”

    Except 9 years old that find themselves pregnant with twins – through rape – then the fetuses trumps ALL compassion that should be applied to this little girl… This case makes that much CRYSTAL clear!

    Suzanne: “We should be compassionate towards ALL.”

    Then why the LACK of compassion for the 9 year old victim here?? You, and your church, have shown NONE!

    @Peter: Are you embarrassed to be catholic yet? I’m having a hard time understanding your comments – do you support the RCC on this, is it just the “inconsistency” that bothers you about the bishop’s actions or do you see this as barbaric too?

  22. 22
    Peter LeBlanc Says:

    “Joe, Peter, “Are you embarrassed to be catholic yet?”, Are you kidding, I studied the history of the Catholic Church and this is nothing compared to past events. The answer is NO, I love the Church and when it moves away from a morbid preoccupation with sin and teaches creativity and compassionate living as a way of Christian life, which it is mandated to do, it will have caught up to the way the average catholic lives.

    The Churchs” teaching on the gospel value of the “preferrential option for the poor”, is one I am very proud of.

    Joe, It is just the Archbishops inconsistency, I don’t think he met the letter of the law.

    I am personally against abortion, not for religious, but for human reasons as many non religious people are.

    The Catholic Church when it lays claim to this belief, that abortion is wrong, it should do so in a pastoral context. Ie., a loving concern for the person having the abortion as well as the potential human life that will be destroyed.

    Excommunication can be as serious as being abandoned on a deserted island to some catholics and I don’t think it should be used as a penalty for abortion.

  23. 23
    Chimera Says:

    “What about God’s compassion for the unborn children? Does your God not recognize them as equal human beings, just as valuable as anyone else?”

    God can think whatever it wants about whomever it wants. But if the religious are correct and god created me and gave me free will, then I’m going to exercise my free will and have my own thoughts. And they don’t have to agree with god, whatever that is.

    And no, they are not “equal,” they are not “human beings,” and if they have any value at all, it’s for someone else, not for me.

    “Does anyone think about what happens during an abortion?”

    No. Unlike some people, most of us have our own lives to live and we don’t want to stick our noses into the private lives of other people.

    “I studied the history of the Catholic Church and this is nothing compared to past events.”

    Huh. No kidding, Peter! There was a time when “chopping up *babies*” meant they were just getting started; whole villages were put first to the sword, then to the torch, and the “marshmallows” being served at the bonfires were live!

  24. 24
    Joe Agnost Says:

    This story is getting bigger and bigger… It’s even in the Ottawa Citizen this morning.

    The RCC are getting A LOT of BAD publicity from this… it’s good to see that sanity is generally prevailing among those discussing this (suzanne’s vile comments aside). How much longer will the vatican support this nasty chain of events I wonder? Will they change their tune as the world continues to denounce them?


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